Sherwood SACKED

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Should Sherwood be sacked as Villa Manager?

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Re: Sherwood SACKED

Post by villabromsgrove on Wed Oct 07, 2015 6:48 pm

http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/aston-villa-west-brom-10212685?

Hopefully Stats like these will figure in Lerner/Fox/Almstadt's thinking this week.
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Re: Sherwood SACKED

Post by Sandie on Wed Oct 07, 2015 7:04 pm

Elsewhere, the same rag is going on about his 'win ratio' and comparing it favourably to successful former Villa managers Paul Lambert and Alex McLeish. Have they been appointed as Coco's PR team?

http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/aston-villa-tim-sherwoods-win-10213574

A less kind person than I would ask how his win ratio would look in 5 games, time he is almost certainly going to get.
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Re: Sherwood SACKED

Post by villabromsgrove on Wed Oct 07, 2015 7:11 pm

Sandie wrote:Elsewhere, the same rag is going on about his 'win ratio' and comparing it favourably to successful former Villa managers Paul Lambert and Alex McLeish. Have they been appointed as Coco's PR team?

http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/aston-villa-tim-sherwoods-win-10213574

A less kind person  than I would ask how his win ratio would look in 5 games, time he is almost certainly going to get.
As you rightly allude to, it's his win percentage this season that should determine his future at Villa.
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Re: Sherwood SACKED

Post by Sandie on Wed Oct 07, 2015 9:51 pm

Another 'media putting in Tim's excuses' article: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3263913/Aston-Villa-boss-Tim-Sherwood-concerned-untested-foreign-signings-not-adapt-quickly-avoid-relegation-battle-missing-preferred-targets.html with a pretty obvious attempt to move blame onto the players, Almstadt and Paddy Reilly rather than Sherwood's own shortcomings. It's toxic in a way as I'm not sure such stories about players not being up to it will do their confidence any good.
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Re: Sherwood SACKED

Post by villabromsgrove on Thu Oct 08, 2015 11:43 am

Sandie wrote:Another 'media putting in Tim's excuses' article: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3263913/Aston-Villa-boss-Tim-Sherwood-concerned-untested-foreign-signings-not-adapt-quickly-avoid-relegation-battle-missing-preferred-targets.html with a pretty obvious attempt to move blame onto the players, Almstadt and Paddy Reilly rather than Sherwood's own shortcomings. It's toxic in a way as I'm not sure such stories about players not being up to it will do their confidence any good.
There are managers out there who could confidently work with these players.
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Re: Sherwood SACKED

Post by GadgetMan on Thu Oct 08, 2015 12:19 pm

Welo those are grim reading aren't they? I wonder whether the target being turned to Reilly and Henrik will see them in turn speak to Fox and point out the errors in Sherwood's approach thus far?! It can't help the overall morale can it?

The signs firmly point to Sherwood staying in the immediate future. I think if they were going to sack him during this break, they would have already. So it appears they're sticking with him. That brings me onto another problem Sherwood maybe facing. The language barrier.

Known as a "man manager" and being able to talk players into believing in themselves and getting the extra % out of individuals that way, may be negated by many unable to speak the language and therefore understand the finer points TS wants to convey. If it's a rallying call, will that be lost with an interpreter? It can't help can it?!

Whoevers fault it is for this mess, be it players brought in on statistics or the more obvious areas of poor tactics and bemusing team selections then it needs a team effort to turn it round. Tim needs to lean on all the people he can, be it more traditional, what you've seen with your eyes methods and his coaches opinions. or stats provided by the 'moneyball' men, or a combination If it all. Pick his best XI and bloody well stick with it and hope it can play into form. Changing it every week can be just as damaging as not changing anything.

Get a set back four and then train train train. Don't keep messing about with RB's or new defensive partners for Richards. If Lescott can't manage 90 mins don't pick him. We need stability and consistency. So let's get the right XI and play a way that will play to their strengths. This is the only way we will turn it around or run into any kind of form imo.

This is based on the notion Sherwood isn't going anywhere over the next six weeks.

Forgive the rambling/typos etc it's been done on my phone and a tiny screen.
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Re: Sherwood SACKED

Post by villabromsgrove on Thu Oct 08, 2015 12:41 pm

I think the major problem we have is Tim Sherwood. He's obstinate, egotistical and inexperienced, which is proving to be a lethal cocktail.

Obstinate: He had a plan for this season based on strength, leadership and physical fitness. He's persisting with the style even though he wasn't able to buy the players he wanted for this system.

Ego: He's insisting that "Tim Sherwood" is at his best when he's pressured, and he insists that he can turn us round, even though he admits that he currently doesn't know how to.

Inexperience: Before he became Villa manager Sherwood had a half of a season as first team coach behind him. He's now been a manager in his own right for 26 games. He's admitted that he doesn't know his best team, he doesn't know his best tactics, he doesn't know how long it will take for his players to become fit enough or gel as a team.

An experienced manager will have several hundred games behind him, he will have experienced most situations that can arise, and he will have a plan for this week, next week, next month and next season.

Tim has to go.
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Re: Sherwood SACKED

Post by GadgetMan on Thu Oct 08, 2015 1:38 pm

We all (well most know that) however I don't think our board agree so for the purposes of discussion what needs to happen WITH Tim still here. He isn't going anytime soon sadly. He'd be gone already if it was going to happen in this break.

Sadly the break doesn't help us either, may possibly get one or two fitter, however when asked about the last the break being of benefit Tim said "no, as hardly anyone was here, so we couldn't really work on anything" so sadly the benefits won't be huge. Maybe a mini pre season for those he doesn't see as quite fit enough yet. Veretout, Gestede, Gana, Grealish, Gil etc etc!

I say this as fitness has been one of times 'reasons' (excuses?) for players not being able to play his way (despite admitting he doesn't know how to play) I can see a pattern here......

So most on this thread seem to be adamant Tim needs to go, where are those that think he needs more Time? Explain why? Also let's assume he's not going before December or Watford at home (that's when I think he may be sacked if we're still struggling) what is it that he needs to do in the meantime?
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Re: Sherwood SACKED

Post by Sandie on Thu Oct 08, 2015 2:29 pm

GadgetMan wrote:Also let's assume he's not going before December or Watford at home (that's when I think he may be sacked if we're still struggling) what is it that he needs to do in the meantime?

I think you pretty much covered it. He needs to find the best XI and the best tactical system for the players at his disposal. Even if they weren't his choices he needs to approach it like he's been brought in as a new manager and needs to start getting points on the board. The most important thing to do is to start getting points on the board not really easy with the next few games. We could get wins against both Chelsea and Swansea yet if results go against us could still find ourselves in the bottom three such is our current position but getting those two wins, unlikely as they are, would still represent a major step forward. The most important thing is to get everyone pulling in the same direction, nobody pissing about talking to the press and disrupting the camp. If he does that we stand a chance.
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Re: Sherwood SACKED

Post by GadgetMan on Thu Oct 08, 2015 5:14 pm

That's the other thing Sandie. The whole pulling together involves the fans too. We saw just what happened last season. Lambert was sacked and the fans immediately galvanised behind Sherwood. He's only a couple of bad results away from all out cries of "sack him" there was already unrest against Stoke aimed at Sherwood.

To stand any chance he needs to do exactly what you said. Nothing short of wins and points in his immediate future will get the fans back on side. Somehow, someway, he's got to get back to basics and win games.

Purely hoping we get the ball to Rudy to score will get him the sack and quick.

I'm going to say it and I swore I'd never want to say this again. Here goes.

I'd take defeats in the next two if it got him that sack. I started to say the same under Lambert and it's a horrible way to think. We need change and we need it fast and as that change doesn't seem to be coming on the pitch by way of results, we need the boards hand forced. Short term pain for long term gain.

Maybe the thread should now read "when do we think the board will turn?" How long as he got with the board of we keep losing? Will it still be upto the Watford game or could it be sooner?

So thoughts, not what we want to happen (that's pretty clear in the main) but what do we 'think' will happen? When will the board (Fox) pull the plug?
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Re: Sherwood SACKED

Post by villabromsgrove on Thu Oct 08, 2015 6:24 pm

I think that Tom Fox made the assumption that a lifetime in football and the right personality was enough to make a successful manager. Now that it's been proven that in Sherwood's case that isn't so, TF must realise that a few more weeks isn't going to magically turn Tim into a good manager.

There is absolutely no point in further jeopardising Villa's survival prospects by waiting and praying.

I may sound hard hearted but for the sake of AVFC it has to happen now.

Sorry I can't be any more positive about our manager.
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Re: Sherwood SACKED

Post by Sandie on Thu Oct 08, 2015 6:36 pm

On the question of 'when will the board turn', I think by the fact he's not been sacked now he's going to get at least the next two games. Chelsea will most likely be seen as a dead rubber within the corridors of power at Villa Park (even though they are beatable in their form). Truthfully, he's probably going to get a bit longer than that. Until the end of November? Until Christmas? Wonder how Fox will feel about the press talking about club policy and Sherwood's disagreement with it? Will that affect the amount of slack Tim will get?
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Re: Sherwood SACKED

Post by GadgetMan on Thu Oct 08, 2015 6:56 pm

Sandie wrote:On the question of 'when will the board turn', I think by the fact he's not been sacked now he's going to get at least the next two games. Chelsea will most likely be seen as a dead rubber within the corridors of power at Villa Park (even though they are beatable in their form). Truthfully, he's probably going to get a bit longer than that. Until the end of November? Until Christmas? Wonder how Fox will feel about the press talking about club policy and Sherwood's disagreement with it? Will that affect the amount of slack Tim will get?

This is a good point Sandie and one that was never an issue under Lambert, as he was always seen as tight with the board and the guy who would take the flak and never say a bad word. Well I don't think Tim is the same, I think Tim matters first to Tim and it doesn't surprise me that there has been rumblings of transfer policy and a flurry of pro Sherwood articles. This is where he is smart. He works the press well, gives them lots of sound bytes and content and in return they'll do him the odd favour (It appears this club policy story has been leaked to muddy the water and detract from the real issues)

So we're in a situation here where by not only is Tim potentially at odds over on pitch performances, it could be that the off field stuff is what costs him his job sooner. IF (and I say IF as we don't know) Club policy has been let slip to the press in a negative light, then yes I think it could influence Tom Fox's decision and the slack. I suggested directly after Stoke that maybe Tim would be the type of manager to walk and 'speak out' to safe face, rather than be sacked and reflect badly solely on him. The articles in the last few days could be the start of that. I would not be at all surprised to see a parting of ways under those circumstances.

Weird that it would be that and not the terrible football and clueless approach he seems to have adopted in recent months that could see him leave. What a shambles of a club we really are. Year after year, after year. Another winter of discontent beckons it would seem.

Come on Randy, sell up and give us all fresh hope and optimism. Dare I say a Bright Future?
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Re: Sherwood SACKED

Post by Sandie on Thu Oct 08, 2015 7:23 pm

There's no question in my mind that Lerner is the big problem at the club. He's the reason for the malaise the club has suffered ever since O'Neill walked out. The reason we bob around the lower reaches of the league and have come to be pretty poorly run. I don't think he's going to go easy, he needs to find a buyer first and get over the fact that the other members of the family trust want him to get rid of his toy. Sherwood is, however, the immediate issue. He's not getting results and the club might stand a better chance of staying in the division under a more experienced manager.

I think he'll be thinking very carefully about how to protect his reputation, possibly even thinking to his next job in management. In a way this club, with it's long standing problems, could be spun as the wrong job for him at this time and there would be no shame in that for him. What there will be shame in is if people remember him for his 'I don't know my best team' comments and tactical ineptitude so far.

What is telling is that the criticism in the articles has revolved around a 'recruitment team' (Paddy Reilly and Henrik Almstadt) who doubtlessly make an easier target than Fox or Lerner who obviously have the power to hire and fire.
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Re: Sherwood SACKED

Post by villabromsgrove on Fri Oct 09, 2015 11:17 am

Sky are reporting that Sunderland are in talks with Sam Allardyce, and hope to make him their manager over the weekend. His sole target will be to keep them in the Premier League.
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Re: Sherwood SACKED

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