Sherwood SACKED

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Should Sherwood be sacked as Villa Manager?

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Re: Sherwood SACKED

Post by villabromsgrove on Tue Oct 06, 2015 12:19 pm

I don't think Rodgers has become a bad manager, and I think that quite a few of our players would be a good fit for his type of football. He's probably going to be looking higher than Villa, but if he want's a big challenge we're certainly the right club. I also think that David Moyes could now be a better manager than he was at Everton, because the technical ability of his Spanish coaches will have added new elements to his management skills. Remi Garde has no Premier League experience at all, but with the number of French players we have he could be an interesting but risky candidate.

Then we come to Big Sam. The fact that he's been there, done it and got the tee shirt so many times, means that we may well start to grind out draws and the occasional win, but it won't be easy to watch. Do we have Allardyce type players though? I wonder whether collectively we're too lightweight for Sam?
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Re: Sherwood SACKED

Post by Sandie on Tue Oct 06, 2015 12:37 pm

It was not that long ago that Moyes was considered too good for us by a lot of fans. I wouldn't mind him and he's seemingly in contention for the Sunderland job so he might well be after a return to English football.

Concern would be whether he can be the man he was at Everton again after the obvious knock to his confidence that United ended up being. Have also heard he was under pressure in Spain.
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Re: Sherwood SACKED

Post by GadgetMan on Tue Oct 06, 2015 12:58 pm

Wasn't Reme Garde a coach under Wenger? If so he knows the EPL and has a link to Arsenal and the two ex Arsebal staff members we have amongst our ranks. As you say VB, he'd be very familiar with our French contingent. I'd be happy with risking him. Right now I'd settle for any of the others mentioned too over Sherwood and his ongoing woes!!
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Re: Sherwood SACKED

Post by Sandie on Tue Oct 06, 2015 1:46 pm

I don't think now is the right time to gamble. We took a gamble last season and look where it's ended us up. Garde did have three seasons at Lyon so might not be one, though, just have no idea what he was like there.
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Re: Sherwood SACKED

Post by Sandie on Tue Oct 06, 2015 4:46 pm

We're slightly less crap than last season apparently

It doesn't take a genius to work out that 4 points from 8 games is pretty much as bad as it gets for Aston Villa fans.

Star players have left, new players have come in, and the club is losing at home to Stoke City and West Brom.

In short, Villa have been poor, very poor.

However, a quick look at the numbers shows that there has been an improvement in some areas since last season.

We have taken last season's averages and looked at them against the averages for the season so far.

At times last season, Villa has an abysmal percentage of play in individual games, that led to a rather poor 48% average possession stat for the season.

Now, that hasn't grown greatly, but it has risen to 50%.

That's very much the common theme discovered when looking at the figures.

Passing success is now slightly up at 79.8% from 79%.

Long balls are down from 16.6% to 14.8%.

Last season Paul Lambert's side were successful in 74.64% of their tackles, this season, Tim Sherwood's side have won 81.03% of theirs.

They are also averaging more goals per game, 1 in fact.

Not great, but look at last year's 0.82 and it's apparent just how bleak things were.

Not that they look much better, that league table doesn't lie.

Sherwood's Villa are averaging 1.63 goals against each game. Last season the number was lower on 1.5.

There are slight glimmers of light in the distance for Tim Sherwood's side. It's easy and indeed correct to say that the side is doing even worse so far than they were last season.

Villa started well last season with 10 points from the first 8 games, Sherwood's side have taken 4 from the first 8.

Yes, alarm bells are ringing, the fans are unsettled, the team the same.

The more optimistic of fans should take a look at the stats above and take some heart from the fact that certain areas have improved.

Now the rest - particularly wins and points - needs to follow.

Now I'm perhaps being needlessly negative and trying to turn everything into a 'SACK SHERWOOD NOW' message but that shows me that the players are doing their job, they're passing the ball, they're making more tackles but they've accrued fewer points than last season's side managed by a marginally smaller clown. Something is letting them down. Is it the tactical set up? Is it just being able to find a stat that can prove anything?
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Re: Sherwood SACKED

Post by avfcff1982 on Tue Oct 06, 2015 4:51 pm

Exactly, stats and numbers are not point's on the board, that's what we need pronto.
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Re: Sherwood SACKED

Post by Sandie on Tue Oct 06, 2015 7:54 pm

Another pro-Sherwood article from the Mail

The last time Aston Villa performed so badly at the start of a top-flight season was back in 1986/87 when they were relegated into the second tier.

Villa have picked up just four points from a possible 24 and are languishing in 18th place.

The summer arrivals are struggling to settle in, unrest is growing on the terraces and boss Tim Sherwood is having to deal with most of the problems.

Our man at Villa, Gregg Evans, looks at the situation in B6 and reckons it’s important to give the manager time to turn things around.

1) How much pressure is Sherwood under?
It’s certainly a tricky time for the 46-year-old who is under increased scrutiny after Villa’s woeful start to the season. Randy Lerner will be wondering what on earth is going on over here in the Midlands after sanctioning a number of big-money deals this summer. The money that was raised, albeit in reluctant circumstances, was reinvested back into the playing squad in a bid to freshen up the side.

But how many players did Sherwood personally source? With a sporting director and head of recruitment working closely on transfers, it’s likely that the manager would have been simply asked for his opinion on a number of new arrivals rather than actually recommending them himself.

Of course there were some players who he managed to land and they have been part of the early-season problems, but there’s no hiding behind the fact that Sherwood is working with a new group who he doesn’t know too much about.

Lerner and chief executive Tom Fox will obviously demand an upturn in fortunes. Right now they are willing to remain patient and trust that the man they appointed will get it right.

The message in February was that this was ‘not just a short-term fix’. Sherwood’s brief was to keep Villa in the Premier League last term and then help to lead the rebuild.

Granted, the latter is a task he is struggling to achieve in these early months of the season, but when you have to mould together a new group of players, some of whom might not have been your own personal selections, the job at hand becomes increasingly difficult.

2) Does the manager deserve more time to get things right?
Yes. Villa were in this position when he took over and in the most pressurised of circumstances Sherwood came up with the goods by keeping Villa in the Premier League after a period where they appeared to be sliding in only one direction. ‘Tim Sherwood is at his best when he’s backed into a corner,’ the manager said bullishly a fortnight ago. He’s right, because that achievement when time was running out last term should be admired.

Of course his record which followed the 6-1 drubbing at Southampton last season, the day that strangely saw Villa secure their top-flight status because of results elsewhere, has been poor and cannot go on forever.

Villa have lost eight of their last 12 games under Sherwood’s reign and if that run continues action will inevitably follow. There have been some strange selections, substitutions and systems this season and Sherwood must shoulder his share of the blame for Villa’s poor start.

When the claret and blues were 2-0 up against Leicester with 20 minutes remaining that game should have been seen out, no doubt about it. But forming a team made out of players, some of whom he hadn’t seen live until they arrived at Bodymoor Heath this summer, was always going to bring its own problems.

3) What might have been different this summer if Sherwood had been given the full say on transfers?
The recruitment process might have gone down a different road. It’s thought that Sherwood wanted more experienced Premier League performers in his ranks and he’d have probably opted for players who have played in England in the past ahead of those who arrived from France and Spain.

But as he revealed last week..."The club decided we were taking the club a certain route (this season) and that we would look at young players.

"Some of these guys I've only seen them play six or seven times and in a few friendlies and I'm trying to get the best out of them."

Sherwood looked at Esteban Cambiasso but the ex-Leicester ace decided on a move elsewhere. Joe Gomez and Tryone Mings were checked out but the left-back of choice turned out to be Jordan Amavi.

Villa missed out on Tom Cleverley, Tom Carroll and Australian ace Massimo Luongo and instead opted to ‘roll the dice’ with players from France. Some of his former stand-out stars at Tottenham were also tracked.

All summer Sherwood chased a proven Premier League striker, notably Emmanuel Adebayor, to replace the departing Christian Benteke, but that never came off either. He looked at other established top-flight stars but was guided elsewhere.

If the boss was excited ahead of his first full summer of trading, he would have been left exhausted come September 2. And that’s without even mentioning Fabian Delph.

4) Can Villa start to turn things around soon?
With a tough fixture list on the horizon the claret and blues will certainly have their work cut out. Struggling Chelsea are up next at Stamford Bridge and despite all the Blues’ early-season troubles, you know they will soon start to come good.

After that is a must-win clash against Swansea at Villa Park followed by tricky league games against Tottenham (a), Manchester City (h) and Everton (a). Villa seemed to have been given a relatively easy start to the campaign when the fixture list was released but have struggled badly. They must now record shock results in the coming games to lift the doom and gloom currently surrounding the club.

5) What is the mood like among supporters?
Villa fans are starting to panic especially as they know that even a win at Chelsea next week won’t lift them out of the relegation zone. The majority of fans remain behind Sherwood, though. They want him to succeed and believe that in time it will start to come together. The one concern is his erratic substitutions and team selections. The sooner the manager finds a settled starting XI the better.

That's the first suggestion I've seen that Sherwood had a minimal say over recruitment. Does the statement of 'facts' as they are given in that article affect anyone's opinions? Anyone agree?
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Re: Sherwood SACKED

Post by Chris Harte on Tue Oct 06, 2015 8:36 pm

The majority of fans remain behind Sherwood, though.
Really?

This observation is based on what, exactly?

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Re: Sherwood SACKED

Post by Sandie on Tue Oct 06, 2015 9:25 pm

Looking at the mood on the various Villa forums and the results of their polls my observation would be precisely the opposite. I know there might be a silent majority but from what I'm seeing and hearing the majority of fans are either against him or prepared to give him only a few more games as time. Their suggestion that he had very little say in summer recruitment doesn't tempt me to soften my view either as the players brought in were one of the few areas I felt Sherwood did well in. Now that it's being claimed he didn't have anything to do with that I'm struggling to think what exactly is any good about him.
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Re: Sherwood SACKED

Post by villabromsgrove on Tue Oct 06, 2015 10:00 pm

Tim Sherwood likes a certain kind of player. Strong, experienced, aggressive, confident and up for a battle. The players we bought are the exact opposite of Sherwood type players apart from Richards and Gestede.

If it's true that TS had most of his players bought for him, then it's no wonder he doesn't have a clue how to use them. Tim is not a Moneyball Manager. He will not add value to technical young players.
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Re: Sherwood SACKED

Post by GadgetMan on Wed Oct 07, 2015 8:51 am

I'm not sire what to make of this revelation that TS didn't have full say in who we signed. I think maybe the club set the agenda (young and will improve and grown in value, as opposed to old and depreciate in value) however I've read TS say on a number of occasions. "This is a player I've been aware of for sometime now in my role at Spurs where I was tracking Youth all around the world" So he can't have it both ways. It seem she's starting to get his excuses in early and telling the press off record that these aren't his players.

I don't buy it. I think TS is a bullish character that wouldn't let ANYONE be signed without his say so or explicit permission.

As for Gregg Evans, he was still advocating Lambert staying right up until a few weeks before he was fired and actually said the fans were expecting too much. I don't put much stock in his view to be honest. If it were Mat Kendrick writing it, then fair enough.

Sounds like a fluffy piece of "you scratch my back and I'll scratch yours" by Gregg, hoping to remain on the inner circle and Sherwood needing the local press to stay onside.

Changes nothing for me. The only thing that would change IF this was all true would be, I'd lose respect for Tim in allowing players to be brought in who he didn't want or choose and B I have to think (As Sandie has said) What does he bring to the table if he's not gone out and signed these players? I thought he had a good summer, so if it turns out he wasn't responsible, just what has he been doing?

I'm pretty certain this will rumble on with only one outcome. For me it's a case of when not If that Sherwood ultimately loses his job.
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Re: Sherwood SACKED

Post by Sandie on Wed Oct 07, 2015 9:31 am

I agree with that GM, indeed reading that article I was thinking back to the comments here about leaks and media access and thinking it was smacking of a manager using the media to get his excuses in. Both Lambert and McLeish got to the point that they had to start looking after their reputation and make excuses.

If we are taking a moneyball approach then surely the manager is a key part of it? The approach and the players have to suit him, surely? Or did we appoint Sherwood then decide to take that approach a few months later after Almstadt came in without giving much thought to how it worked?

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Re: Sherwood SACKED

Post by villabromsgrove on Wed Oct 07, 2015 11:25 am

Sandie wrote:I agree with that GM, indeed reading that article I was thinking back to the comments here about leaks and media access and thinking it was smacking of a manager using the media to get his excuses in. Both Lambert and McLeish got to the point that they had to start looking after their reputation and make excuses.

If we are taking a moneyball approach then surely the manager is a key part of it? The approach and the players have to suit him, surely? Or did we appoint Sherwood then decide to take that approach a few months later after Almstadt came in without giving much thought to how it worked?

I'm sure this is a Moneyball plan, but as usual we haven't put the key ingredients in place first. Tim does not know what to do with the players we've bought. He does not have the prerequisite experience to add value to our young players at the same time as putting points on the board. Therefore he's been panicked into leaving our technical new guys (also Gil and even Grealish) on the bench because he's afraid to use them. We're left with a dysfunctional system and a manager grasping at straws.
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Re: Sherwood SACKED

Post by villabromsgrove on Wed Oct 07, 2015 11:57 am

We may well get relegated this season. We may well be relegated with half a dozen matches left .... but it's also possible that we may get relegated by a single point. Given that public opinion believes we are likely to be one of the relegated clubs, it isn't just a case of "Villa fans panicking as usual".

How would you feel come the end of the season if we get relegated by one point, after giving Tim Sherwood another six games to get his act together? I'd be furious if that happens because it's avoidable if Fox acts now. It's going to cost us a lot to get the RIGHT manager, but with the potential loss of our share of the huge financial rewards for the twenty clubs who play in the Premier League next season at stake, it has to be done QUICKLY!
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Re: Sherwood SACKED

Post by Sandie on Wed Oct 07, 2015 12:56 pm

Good argument, well made. Fox gets the big money because he's meant to be good at making the big decisions. Whilst he's obviously not going to be as reactionary he's also not going to be clouded by romance and should be able to tell when an employee is well out of his depth.
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Re: Sherwood SACKED

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