Sherwood SACKED

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Should Sherwood be sacked as Villa Manager?

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Re: Sherwood SACKED

Post by villabromsgrove on Mon Oct 05, 2015 11:28 am

Other teams and owners are taking a pragmatic approach. Thirty games to go is the next best thing to a full season if you're going to make a managerial change.

Fox/Lerner should be using the evidence of their own eyes and ears to make an informed decision. Sherwood is telling them that he doesn't know what is wrong and he doesn't yet know how to fix it, and Villa's football demonstrates this. He says he's still learning and admits that if he manages to get a win he'll play that team for the next four or five games. This is managerial lunacy and grasping at straws. They have no option but to bring in an experienced manager, and give him enough time (thirty matches) to put things right.
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Re: Sherwood SACKED

Post by GadgetMan on Mon Oct 05, 2015 1:13 pm

There are still many fans that think it's too early to be thinking of sacking Tim yet and he needs more time etc (although after Stoke a lot less, but still many) sadly you can be pretty certain if there's fans that think that, the board that would have to pay him 3 years salary certainly will be too. We're not seeing any change for at least another 6 weeks imo (2 of which we don't have a game for, so about another 4/5 games minimum imo)

For a balanced view, I can see how some may think it's too early, even if I don't think so.

So is you're a "it's too early" explain why and what makes you think it will change?
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Re: Sherwood SACKED

Post by Sandie on Mon Oct 05, 2015 1:37 pm

I expect that is how the board are thinking.

How bad will things need to be for them to act? My feeling is that if things haven't improved by the end of November he'll be out and it's a tough run until then. Heaven help us if they keep him on longer than that without any evidence of recovery.
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Re: Sherwood SACKED

Post by villabromsgrove on Mon Oct 05, 2015 1:39 pm

I'm sat here with my jaw dropped after reading Tim Sherwood's words today on the official site.

' I'll be searching for the right formation and the right players to play in it."

There's a lot more of the same, basically saying I haven't actually got a clue yet, but I'm still learning.

The sad fact is that at least 90% of Villa fans know the players we've got and the system that would suit them best. It's so simple because it's the only way that these talented players that we've bought can play together. It's also the only system that Tim hasn't figured out, or is afraid to try.

Coach the system, play the system and stick to the system. Don't keep frigging about because we're playing the wrong system and we're not winning.

By the way I'm not going to insult you guys with describing the system because you all know exactly what it is.

I'll tell you what is isn't though Tim .... it's not giving a bunch monkeys a typewriter each, locking them in a room and hoping they'll accidentally bang out a new play in the style of Shakespeare.
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Re: Sherwood SACKED

Post by villabromsgrove on Mon Oct 05, 2015 1:45 pm

Sandie wrote:I expect that is how the board are thinking.

How bad will things need to be for them to act? My feeling is that if things haven't improved by the end of November he'll be out and it's a tough run until then. Heaven help us if they keep him on longer than that without any evidence of recovery.
I think you could be right, but I hope you're wrong.

The end of November would give TS another 20% of our remaining matches to stumble around groping for his mythical "win." Six leagues matches and a cup match that a new experienced manager could use to get his team up and running competitively.
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Re: Sherwood SACKED

Post by GadgetMan on Mon Oct 05, 2015 1:57 pm

villabromsgrove wrote:
Sandie wrote:I expect that is how the board are thinking.

How bad will things need to be for them to act? My feeling is that if things haven't improved by the end of November he'll be out and it's a tough run until then. Heaven help us if they keep him on longer than that without any evidence of recovery.
I think you could be right, but I hope you're wrong.

The end of November would give TS another 20% of our remaining matches to stumble around groping for his mythical "win." Six leagues matches and a cup match that a new experienced manager could use to get his team up and running competitively.


You're spot on, but sadly I just don't think this board are savvy or bold enough to act. They'll see it as six games for Tim to work his magic and stumble on a formation that works!! Nothing I've seen of Lerner or Fox make me they're proactive and not reactive (just like the managers come and gone ironically)

The only positive I see in this I'd we do actually have a better squad than last year, so another 6 games will still leave us with plenty of time to get safe. If Tim somehow turns it round in that time then great!!

I don't see it being a fun October or November though.


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Re: Sherwood SACKED

Post by Sandie on Mon Oct 05, 2015 2:04 pm

Yep, I agree with all of that. I think the right manager would be able to turn things around quickly with our players. Not having to deal with the next five games might prove to be an advantage to them.

Of course, Tim might get his win. What then? Even with another win under our belts we'd still be bottom 3.
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Re: Sherwood SACKED

Post by villabromsgrove on Mon Oct 05, 2015 2:14 pm

GM, if you're right about us having a better squad than last season then TS has to be held responsible for only one win out of eight games. Why should he be given another six games to prove that he currently doesn't know what to do next.

I'm actually thinking about Tim Sherwood the man and manager. Is he telling the truth when he says that he doesn't know from match to match who are his best players and what are his best tactics.

Is he telling us the truth when he says that it's because he's still learning the job?

The facts tend to back up this scenario, so it probably isn't a tongue in cheek bit of misdirection for the fans and media.

If all the things that he's said since losing to Stoke on Saturday are true, then Tom Fox has no choice but to sack him, as Tim's condemned himself out of his own mouth.
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Re: Sherwood SACKED

Post by GadgetMan on Mon Oct 05, 2015 2:19 pm

You know I totally agree with you VB. I'm just not convinced our bumbling board do.

I sincerely hope our Sporting Director is pally enough with Fox to take him to one side and let him know It's not working and we need immediate change. Imagine what someone like Ancelotti could do with this set of players. We need an experienced leader and we need one NOW!!
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Re: Sherwood SACKED

Post by villabromsgrove on Mon Oct 05, 2015 2:34 pm

I share your concern about the willingness of Fox to act decisively, but I think he has to if only to protect the players.

We've talked about the likely continuing negative effect on our league position and points total over the next half a dozen games, but what about the negative effect on our players. By the time a change is made after our usual lengthy procrastination, the confidence and belief of our players will be totally shot, and any new manager will have his hands full trying to repair the collective damage, before tackling our points deficit.
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Re: Sherwood SACKED

Post by GadgetMan on Mon Oct 05, 2015 2:45 pm

He'll be given until after the Watford game I think. That OS article cut be a cut and paste job from either Lambert or Mcleish time. We'll see a full PR machine into motion over the next few weeks. Players saying how confident everyone is, how they love the manager etc! We've seen it time and time again.

Maybe our chairman can act?! Oh wait we don't have an active one do we?! Lerner was meant to appoint one if he wasn't selling.

Maybe that's out only hope?! A sale still in the works, new owners, new manager. Simple Very Happy
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Re: Sherwood SACKED

Post by Sandie on Mon Oct 05, 2015 9:00 pm

I've seen a couple of people saying that Sherwood deserves more time after 'keeping us up' last season, but I have to ask how much he had to do with it? I think he provided a breath of fresh air to the side after mumbling Lambert and his charisma by-pass but could our success be actually down to us having Benteke who had a period of being completely unplayable? Just how many goals did he get us in that run-in? How many goals did his presence get for others?
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Re: Sherwood SACKED

Post by GadgetMan on Mon Oct 05, 2015 9:39 pm

Sandie wrote:I've seen a couple of people saying that Sherwood deserves more time after 'keeping us up' last season, but I have to ask how much he had to do with it? I think he provided a breath of fresh air to the side after mumbling Lambert and his charisma by-pass but could our success be actually down to us having Benteke who had a period of being completely unplayable? Just how many goals did he get us in that run-in? How many goals did his presence get for others?

Have to say I asked and thought the same by the end of last season. I called it the "new manager bounce" he lifted a team just enough to get the required amounts of points and too safety. Did he get Benteke playing or did Benteke just get fit and play himself into form? I think a bit of both. Regardless of that we JUST stayed up by the skin of our teeth. So we don't 'owe' him anything. He needs to be judged on the job he's done as a manager over the course of his tenure and that 20 points from 21 games (63 points) and 4 from the last 30 points available. We're bottom of the form table. 3rd from bottom of the table and 4 points adrift from 'safety' and have a manager openly admitting to not knowing how to fix it and admitting he's still learning.

If you look at it with a calm rational mind, he only deserves one thing and that's to be sacked, not give more time as he kept us up. We'll never know just how much of they was his doing or not. We can only judge him on the here and now and it's simply not good enough and more worryingly he shows no ability to know how to fix it.

We had nothing to lose last year in sacking Lambert. We have everything to lose at the moment in not sacking Sherwood. Big decision is needed, one I fear that isn't coming though. Another example of naive and weak leadership by our club.

Fox quickly needs to start justifying his hefty salary by making the right decisions and quickly.
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Re: Sherwood SACKED

Post by villabromsgrove on Tue Oct 06, 2015 11:48 am

The Premier League is such a competitive competition that every club needs to take maximum advantage of every single game to gain incredibly hard to come by points.

Any club that believes they can waste half a dozen more games before attempting to remedy a shocking almost pointless situation, is either being arrogant or stupid.
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Re: Sherwood SACKED

Post by Morddred on Tue Oct 06, 2015 11:51 am

I am not sure how much time we can afford to give the manager to turn things around. One point from 21 does not bode well for the run up to Christmas, and by then it might be too late to get to safety or to get the obvious choice of manager in.
I really don't want us to be one of those clubs who hire and fire managers after just a few games but there is no light at the end of the tunnel with Sherwood.
His tactical decisions leave a bit to be desired, the subs at Leicester for example.
For me it's time to bite the bullet and see if Sam Allardyce fancies a crack at the worst job in football.
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