Aston Villa V West Brom... Sat September 19th 3:00 Kick Off

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Re: Aston Villa V West Brom... Sat September 19th 3:00 Kick Off

Post by GadgetMan on Sun Sep 20, 2015 5:52 pm

villabromsgrove wrote:
GadgetMan wrote:Check out all the match stats here. Some excellent info and telling statistics. Check out the sideways passing (can see where Ray Wilkins is having an effect ha)  Looking at the summary we bossed the game. It's only when you looking at passes and check out the attacking third and you see how very little we got the ball in the box that you realise just how much we're struggling to carry a real threat. Atrocious when you see it all laid out.

Anyway take a look and discuss. We'll aim to get these up sooner for the next game, as I think they help form a more rational view of the game.

http://www.fourfourtwo.com/statszone/8-2015/matches/803220/summary#tabs-wrapper-anchor
Illuminating! three of the four players who have the biggest amount of possession and therefore influence over the game, are the three that we know are killing the game for us week after week. Westwood, Sanchez and Hutton. I can't remember the last time that Villa won a match with these three players together in the team. That is a simple but damning statistic!

It's simple things like that I find remarkable. We get a few stats and draw our own conclusions, they have an absolute abundance of staff and experts to analysis it, perhaps they're relying on them too much and not actually what's seen each week on the pitch? God knows. Sometimes you go back to basics and keep it really simple. For starters what's the point in both Gil and Jack (who aren't the hardest of workers) when we don't then play through them or given them the ball in the right areas? Pointless. As I said in the other thread it appears TS is trying to shoehorn certain players in without giving due thought to the system and how it will effect the bigger picture.

I'd go back to basics and play a 4-4-2 keep a tight line of 4 at the back and get Traore and Jack on each wing (aided by the fullbacks) with Gana and Veretout in the middle (or one DM and one Box to Box midfielder) with two forwards who are then allowed time to forge a partnership. If it's Rudy, stick with him and give him a partner to play off (and vice versa) Get the ball wide, beat players and get it into the box (we're not doing it anywhere near enough and Tim spoke about this last year) It's like we're trying to play it through the middle to satisfy Gil and Jack (can they really play together? both in the whole, as is happening?) but then failing to get it to them or have strikers clever enough to link up.

Get Traore running and crossing for Rudy/Kozak with a pacey striker playing off him, be it Gabby, Sinclair (personally) or ayew and stick with it. What we're doing isn't working or even remotely looking like working.
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Re: Aston Villa V West Brom... Sat September 19th 3:00 Kick Off

Post by villabromsgrove on Sun Sep 20, 2015 5:55 pm

Frightening stat Sandie.

Obviously Sherwood gets all these stats every game, so why does he persist with failure?
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Re: Aston Villa V West Brom... Sat September 19th 3:00 Kick Off

Post by GadgetMan on Sun Sep 20, 2015 5:57 pm

Sandie wrote:I strongly suspect that Sherwood's persistance with a tactical system that uses at least two defensive midfielders is a big reason for the lack of dynanism with our passing.

Also - just how anonymous was Sinclair? Here's the answer:

Absolutely Sandie and my word he was poor wasn't he. This is what two Dm's give you.

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Re: Aston Villa V West Brom... Sat September 19th 3:00 Kick Off

Post by Jim Villan on Sun Sep 20, 2015 7:48 pm

How on earth have we managed to change a complete squad of players and ended up playing the exact same football as Paul Lambert. The player who seems to get most of the ball, when he plays in this villa side is hutton every time. Because Sherwood is setting up with 2/3 defensive midfielders and then Gil and grealish who like to drift in centrally, the only players who get any space are our fullbacks. It's back to the dark old days of Lambert sidewards 5 yard passing football. Sherwood has got to go back to basics. When he first came in he spoke of being direct creating chances, he needs to take his own advice. As GM has said sherwood needs to go 442 ASAP he needs to drop westwood (the biggest exponant of crap 5 yard sidewards football) and Sanchez immediately, both of these players arent of the required standard, he needs to play Traore on the wing Grealish on the other flank and they need to stay wide Gana and Vertout in the middle both of them bot have good engines and will have the space to make forward bursts without tripping over their own players. Up front he needs to play one of Gestede or kozak with one of gabby/sinclair/Ayew playing off them. This will give the team a simple structure to work in to begin with. PLaying this way we might get overun a bit in the middle in certain matches, but who cares, we will be able to get at teams and create chances from wide areas enough to be able to win plenty of games.........IF and at the moment this is a big IF, our strikers can find the back of the net!! Were currently putting a team out that tactically lacks conviction, were setting up to not lose matches, but this is having this is having the adverse effect. Time for Sherwood to realise that he isn't a tactical mastermind, but what he can do is motivate a group of players, so keep it simple Tim make each player clear on what there roll and function is in the side, go out attack teams and we might be able to get back to winning football matches.
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Re: Aston Villa V West Brom... Sat September 19th 3:00 Kick Off

Post by villabromsgrove on Sun Sep 20, 2015 8:40 pm

Good post Jim. Sherwood could save himself a lot of grief by reading threads like these across a wide spectrum of Villa fan forums. We don't have a top team, but we could be much better than we're being made to look by some crap team selection and tactics.
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Re: Aston Villa V West Brom... Sat September 19th 3:00 Kick Off

Post by GadgetMan on Sun Sep 20, 2015 9:36 pm

Jim Villan wrote: How on earth have we managed to change a complete squad of players and ended up playing the exact same football as Paul Lambert. The player who seems to get most of the ball, when he plays in this villa side is hutton every time. Because Sherwood is setting up with 2/3 defensive midfielders and then Gil and grealish who like to drift in centrally, the only players who get any space are our fullbacks. It's back to the dark old days of Lambert sidewards 5 yard passing football. Sherwood has got to go back to basics. When he first came in he spoke of being direct creating chances, he needs to take his own advice. As GM has said sherwood needs to go 442 ASAP he needs to drop westwood (the biggest exponant of crap 5 yard sidewards football) and Sanchez immediately, both of these players arent of the required standard, he needs to play Traore on the wing Grealish on the other flank and they need to stay wide Gana and Vertout in the middle both of them bot have good engines and will have the space to make forward bursts without tripping over their own players. Up front he needs to play one of Gestede or kozak with one of gabby/sinclair/Ayew playing off them. This will give the team a simple structure to work in to begin with. PLaying this way we might get overun a bit in the middle  in certain matches, but who cares, we will be able to get at teams and create chances from wide areas enough to be able to win plenty of games.........IF and at the moment this is a big IF, our strikers can find the back of the net!! Were currently putting a team out that tactically lacks conviction,  were setting up to not lose matches, but this is having this is having the adverse effect. Time for Sherwood to realise that he isn't a tactical mastermind, but what he can do is motivate a group of players, so keep it simple Tim make each player clear on what there roll and function is in the side, go out attack teams and we might be able to get back to winning football matches.

JV You and I as a managerial duo? ha! Honestly, the basic stuff needs to be addressed and then we can build from there. I know they're pro's and there's far more to it than us layman may know, but maybe that's the problem, maybe it's been over analysed and a simpler approach is needed. Get two banks of 4 and start a fresh. Increase the intensity in which we play. I worry they're training too hard in the week and the intensity has gone by the weekend/. It's small margins that can make all the difference. This is TS first start to a season EVER. Is he working them too hard and overthinking it all and not listening to his other staff? You'd think Wilkins has helped set up many a team for a season, only good if he's been heard.

I worry Tim's ego is too big for his own good. This is complete speculation as I don't know anything about him apart from his public persona. Big BIG stakes on Tuesday. Lose to Blues and those Boo's will be VERY loud!!! Dejavu!
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Re: Aston Villa V West Brom... Sat September 19th 3:00 Kick Off

Post by villabromsgrove on Sun Sep 20, 2015 9:58 pm

I once managed a five a side team who played some superb football, they passed and moved and supported each other at speed and scored loads of goals. It was really good to watch and they won the league. The only time we struggled was when we played a lad who was an ex baggies U18 striker. He was a great player but he hogged possession and squandered all our best opportunities with a dodgy final ball. He proved a point that when you get a finite amount of possession in a match, if the wrong player gets the majority of the ball you're stuffed. That's what's happening at Villa at the moment.
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Re: Aston Villa V West Brom... Sat September 19th 3:00 Kick Off

Post by Liberty on Mon Sep 21, 2015 4:26 pm

I'm just getting over this defeat had a crap weekend because of it!
We really need to put in a performance tomorrow night or the boos will be deafening!
The Olybian outplayed us in every position, Pulis got it right and his side was well drilled and played to a plan.
apart from Richards, I couldn't pick another Villa player who had a decent game im afraid.
the second ball phase was IMO non-existent, Gestede was statue-like and the sideway passing was boring to say the least!
I was really pleases when Wilkins joined the staff, but after the Leicester/WBA games I am just wondering what he brings to the party?

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Re: Aston Villa V West Brom... Sat September 19th 3:00 Kick Off

Post by villabromsgrove on Mon Sep 21, 2015 4:43 pm

Liberty wrote:I'm just getting over this defeat had a crap weekend because of it!
We really need to put in a performance tomorrow night or the boos will be deafening!
The Olybian outplayed us in every position, Pulis got it right and his side was well drilled and played to a plan.
apart from Richards, I couldn't pick another Villa player who had a decent game im afraid.
the second ball phase was IMO non-existent, Gestede was statue-like and the sideway passing was boring to say the least!
I was really pleases when Wilkins joined the staff, but after the Leicester/WBA games I am just wondering what he brings to the party?
That's a fair review of the match. Pulis's teams may not be the most exciting, but they reflect the managers experience in that they're well organised and do the basics competently.  Sherwood's team reflects our manager's lack of experience in that we seem unsure and unpredictable at the moment.

Sherwood can do nothing about his inexperience, except add some to it day by day, week by week, that may not come in time to save him or us.

Message to Randy .... you can buy experience, it's not against the rules!
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Re: Aston Villa V West Brom... Sat September 19th 3:00 Kick Off

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