Newcastle V Aston Villa: Saturday 19th December at 5:30PM

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What will happen at St. James Park?

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Re: Newcastle V Aston Villa: Saturday 19th December at 5:30PM

Post by Sandie on Sat Dec 19, 2015 10:38 pm

villabromsgrove wrote:I guess I'm really frustrated because there aren't many teams that we can beat, and Newcastle (imo) was one of them. We have to throw the kitchen sink at the opposition when we have a 'three points' opportunity.

We're now so deep in our hole that every game has to be approached as a 'three points' opportunity if we are serious about remaining a Premiership club.
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Re: Newcastle V Aston Villa: Saturday 19th December at 5:30PM

Post by Sandie on Sat Dec 19, 2015 11:47 pm

Ayew and Gestede need to start together as a pairing, IMO, at the least.
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Re: Newcastle V Aston Villa: Saturday 19th December at 5:30PM

Post by villabromsgrove on Sun Dec 20, 2015 1:08 am

Sandie wrote:Just back in.

It was a poor selection, really negative at a time when we have little to lose. It takes me back to the question we used to ask about Sherwood 'does he seriously believe that is a team to win this game?'. Throughout the whole of the first half we really obviously lacked any kind of centre forward (before even considering the lack of a supply line) and it was just mindnumbingly awful to watch us. Second half it was obvious a few players had had a rocket but I think Gestede coming on was the turning point. He's a centre forward and meant there was some kind of purpose to our play. Soon as he came on, Ayew started to look up. With Sinclair there wasn't any kind of partnership and Ayew was frankly poor, soon as Rudy came on he was transformed (though no doubt the confidence from the goal helped). Sanchez was utterly hopeless, Hutton tried, Lescott looked good and the ref was crap.

Fans were chanting Adama's name from about the 55th minute so it's not just us on here.
I hope you enjoyed your day Sandie despite the frustrations. I enjoyed reading this post, thanks.
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Re: Newcastle V Aston Villa: Saturday 19th December at 5:30PM

Post by Chris Harte on Sun Dec 20, 2015 10:52 am

We got a point where we needed three. While I expected a defeat, and while a point gives us hope of a revival, I still can't help thinking that it will a slow, agonising death by a thousand cuts.

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Re: Newcastle V Aston Villa: Saturday 19th December at 5:30PM

Post by Sandie on Sun Dec 20, 2015 2:04 pm

Had a good day, VB, it's always a good day out it's just some times/most times the football ends up being the worst part!

Agree Chris, we need wins and yesterday we were playing a poor team. I just have the feeling we are going to limp out of the league without a whimper.
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Re: Newcastle V Aston Villa: Saturday 19th December at 5:30PM

Post by villabromsgrove on Sun Dec 20, 2015 2:43 pm

I had a bit of a pop at Garde yesterday due to his team selection. I realise he's only been in charge for half a dozen matches so I may have sounded unreasonable.

However, I haven't changed my opinion after a night of reflection. Not only was the team selection poor, it indicated that we weren't focussed on winning, and were looking to avoid embarrassment while hoping to nick a point. The last few minutes of the game saw us playing to the corner flag and desperately trying to kill time, when we should have been attacking their really rocky defence looking for that other two points.

That's "tactics" that's the manager, and that's not good enough to keep us in the league. If our ambition extends to hanging on for one point against a very poor team, then we don't deserve to be in the same league as the big hearted battlers of Bournemouth, Watford, Norwich and also small teams that are so far above us like Leicester and Palace.

Remi Garde says that he knew the size of the challenge when he took the job .... it's time to man up and face up to the challenge Remi.
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Re: Newcastle V Aston Villa: Saturday 19th December at 5:30PM

Post by GadgetMan on Sun Dec 20, 2015 4:14 pm

I guess I'm in the minority here with regards to Garde haha! on reflection, I also feel exactly the same.

We talk about all these DM's we pick, who else is there? Gil and Grealish have proven they can't cut it for 90 mins, sadly the balance of the squad then only leaves players many consider to be DM's. Veretout isn't, Gana was used to break out wide left yesterday and get forward, same for Westwood on the right, so we played with a diamond and only one player actually assuming the DM role. Garde has said the first 45 mins was poor and not good enough, we could all see that, the biggest change for me was the tempo and purpose in which we played the second half.

I can't buy that it was all down to Gestede after reading for weeks on here and elsewhere just want a lump he is and that he isn't the answer, for me we started with more intensity in the SH and that was a catalyst for us bombing forward, the conditions suited Gestede as the ball slowed down in the soaked pitch, giving him time to show better control (like a Championship match and pitch, which is largely his level) and the whole team just played loads better WITH predominately the same terrible XI that we started with.

I really don't see it so much as Garde's 'fault' and more to do with the players and what they're capable of given confidence levels, skill levels and who's available to pick. You guys see it as very poor that we were looking to go into the corners for the last few minutes, yet I bet had we bombed forward and conceded I'd be reading how naive we were and threw the game away, such is football Very Happy I get the gist of what's been said, I just don't see it as black and white as being painted.

We didn't so much as play for a draw, more held onto what we had, that's my take. It's unrealistic (IMO) to expect a side that have not shown any of these qualities since Southampton last season, to just rock up to places and 'go for it' and turn people over. We lost 6-1 that day 'just going for it' we aren't good enough and we'll probably get relegated as a result.

Garde has identified what he believes to be the correct way at trying to stay up and I think after 6 games he deserves a little more time and respect. It's like all the last 5/6 years are being lumped on him and he's no accountable for it all. Do you not think if it was as easy as picking the most attacking team possibly, then every team would do it? There's something drastically wrong at Villa and when handing out blame, Garde should (at the moment) figure pretty low on the list.

I'll be watching closely as I expect a different set up at home v West Ham and we need 7 points from 9 really in the next three. A draw and having gained a small victory (by not losing again) will mean a lot more to this current set of fragile minds than the need to simply go for it in terrible conditions and risk losing yet again (which we do so easily) If we'd have lost that confidence would have been through the floor, yet we go into the West Ham game with a little beleive and hopefully now we can start to show the qualities we all want.

Don't underestimate just how vital confidence is to performance, it stuns many a great sportsperson and often the difference between good and great. We're a poor set of players, with little confidence, Garde has took a team that had lost 7 on the bounce (ignoring the end to last season) and managed 3 draws out of his first 6 games that has been against City, Everton, Watford, Saints, Arsenal and Newcastle, not an easy run for a new manager with such a poor team.

If we weren't in such a mess would we be so critical? Balance is needed I think. I'm still firmly behind what he's trying to do and see the hugely difficult job he has. If in 3 games time we're still 'playing for a draw' then maybe I'll start to question him too. I think he's trying to get some confidence in this side and a shit or bust approach, right now isn't the best way?! It may well be that in 3/4 games time that is the approach we need, but I don't think it was automatically the case yesterday.

Just my tuppence worth and I may be wrong, but it's my opinion, as much as you guys have yours. It's always so intriguing to me how differently things can be seen by people and part of the reason we created this forum to debate and discuss, even if we don't always agree. UTV
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Re: Newcastle V Aston Villa: Saturday 19th December at 5:30PM

Post by villabromsgrove on Sun Dec 20, 2015 4:34 pm

You're absolutely right .... if we weren't in such a mess we wouldn't be critical of Garde at all. If we were mid table he could take his time settling in and gradually produce 'Garde type football'.

We don't have the luxury of time, so in my opinion Remi has to do some very un - Garde like things. He simply doesn't have an option.

Of course he isn't responsible for the cumulative effect of years of under invested rubbish ..... but he is our manager NOW and he's the only one that can change our destiny. He'll have to be brave and he'll have to go right outside his comfort zone, but he can try! If he isn't prepared to risk his reputation by going into "shit or bust" mode then we'll be left wondering what might have been if only we had.

Watford and Bournemouth do not have better squads than us (imo), but they do have great coaches who never say die.

It's up to Remi now .... 4-4-2 has to be our method, and goal scoring opportunities have to come before everything else. Attack, attack, attack .... because being defensive is no longer an option.

As you say GM, forums need the oxygen of disagreement and wildly differing opinions. We can be diametrically opposed best mates! Very Happy
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Re: Newcastle V Aston Villa: Saturday 19th December at 5:30PM

Post by Sandie on Sun Dec 20, 2015 4:48 pm

Don't get me wrong, I don't think Garde should be sacked. At the end of the day, I doubt we'll ever have a manager who'll do everything exactly the way I want him to. For me, he deserves criticism for his selection, praise for seeing something that wasn't working (lack of a centre forward) and putting Rudy on/giving the hair dryer treatment to rectify things. Taking a wider view I'd also praise him for the way he has stood up to established players and been upfront with his thinking on others. Question marks remain for me over how he hasn't got a reaction (could anyone from our broken club?) and how well he's been using his resources.

At the end of the day, I think he has to get the end of this season and then, if we go down, part of next and his record will stand or fall on results there. If we stay up he can have the freedom of Birmingham.
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Re: Newcastle V Aston Villa: Saturday 19th December at 5:30PM

Post by villabromsgrove on Sun Dec 20, 2015 5:34 pm

If Remi does significantly better than Sherwood using his current methods, we will still be relegated but he can point to the improvement as proof that he's a decent manager, and that will look well on his CV. If we're relegated no one's going to blame him are they?

I'm worried that he's perhaps not sufficiently prepared to put his reputation on the line by trying something alien to the 'Garde" way of managing, and perhaps bombing. His comments recently have been heavily weighted to our future recovery under his management, not our survival.

We probably will be relegated, but it doesn't have to be a nailed on accepted fact.

As the SAS say ... 'Who Dares Wins."
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Re: Newcastle V Aston Villa: Saturday 19th December at 5:30PM

Post by villabromsgrove on Sun Dec 20, 2015 5:42 pm

http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/aston-villa-two-points-dropped-10627920?

I think this article says more eloquently than I've managed, what I feel about Villa yesterday.
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Re: Newcastle V Aston Villa: Saturday 19th December at 5:30PM

Post by Sandie on Tue Dec 22, 2015 1:41 am

Good article here: http://www.myoldmansaid.com/remi-garde-caution-killer-instinct/ too on a similar theme.
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Re: Newcastle V Aston Villa: Saturday 19th December at 5:30PM

Post by villabromsgrove on Tue Dec 22, 2015 1:32 pm

Sandie wrote:Good article here: http://www.myoldmansaid.com/remi-garde-caution-killer-instinct/ too on a similar theme.
Spot on. I'm still frustrated about our refusal to go for it.
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Re: Newcastle V Aston Villa: Saturday 19th December at 5:30PM

Post by Sandie on Tue Dec 22, 2015 2:48 pm

Maybe my opinion is coloured by my fatalistic view of this season but I think we've left it too late to come back and survive so we might as well have some kind of entertainment as we bow out. If we try the same kind of tactics against a defensively resolute West Ham I don't hold out much hope of getting a result.
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Re: Newcastle V Aston Villa: Saturday 19th December at 5:30PM

Post by GadgetMan on Thu Dec 24, 2015 2:18 pm

All good and valid points chaps. I see it as there's more than one way of 'going for it' and I hope what Garde has tried to do/is trying to do. Is get a little solidarity at the back (we're shipping less) and a little confidence in the team for the most important games ahead, whilst dealing with the rotten apples at the club. Apart from throwing the kitchen sink at it (which I do think will come) I don't see a lot he has done wrong. We've all been saying for years we're a complete mess and rotten from top to bottom, that doesn't get fixed in 6 games or by simply saying Attack, Attack, Attack. I think he's being measured and deliberately so. I feel confident we will start to see a more fluid Villa in coming weeks and especially once he's got a few of his players in.

It's very clear now who and who he doesn't trust at the moment, so he's limited as to who he can pick and how he can set up, so I'm prepared to give him the benefit of the Transfer Window and a little more than 6 games. If we go down, so be it, he will still (for me) fall way down the list of people to blame.

He's come in and quickly identified the troublemakers and those stealing a living (something previous managers seemed unable to do) and once he has Richards back will have a decent (ish) back 4 (he should get Richards at RB) and then a few in via the transfer window and we can give it a good old go. As it stands, I think the saying "you can't flog a dead horse" to be very appropriate. I don't think the current lot have it in them to be Leicester, Bournemouth or Watford. We need better players, with more fight and I think/hope this is what Garde sees too. UTV
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Re: Newcastle V Aston Villa: Saturday 19th December at 5:30PM

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